It safe if you know who make this machine and the code behind.

I think it safer than paper..

(September 21, 2022, 03:33 PM)Zork Wrote:

(September 21, 2022, 12:52 PM)19689p Wrote:

(September 20, 2022, 06:01 PM)nbit Wrote:

(September 20, 2022, 05:55 PM)19689p Wrote: Far safer than paper  voting. Paper can be staged and easy to manipulate. Besides, if everything else is going paperless, why not voting?

transition from paper to electronic needs to take place but paper maybe easier to manipulate but electronic opens to more ways of attack i guess depends how you look at it

Yeah, everything in life has its fair share of risk. You weigh the options and choose

True that. I was surprised to see that there are about 30 countries in the world already using some type of machine for electronic voting.

doesn't india? does seem inevitable but some populations may trust paper more even if its misplaced trust

(September 22, 2022, 12:24 AM)nbit Wrote:

(September 21, 2022, 03:33 PM)Zork Wrote:

(September 21, 2022, 12:52 PM)19689p Wrote:

(September 20, 2022, 06:01 PM)nbit Wrote:

(September 20, 2022, 05:55 PM)19689p Wrote: Far safer than paper  voting. Paper can be staged and easy to manipulate. Besides, if everything else is going paperless, why not voting?

transition from paper to electronic needs to take place but paper maybe easier to manipulate but electronic opens to more ways of attack i guess depends how you look at it

Yeah, everything in life has its fair share of risk. You weigh the options and choose

True that. I was surprised to see that there are about 30 countries in the world already using some type of machine for electronic voting.

doesn't india? does seem inevitable but some populations may trust paper more even if its misplaced trust

Apparently it does. Wow! India uses EVMs. I had no idea. I just read about this on Wikipedia:

Electronic voting was first introduced in 1982 and was used on an experimental basis in the North Paravur assembly constituency in the State of Kerala. However the Supreme Court of India struck down this election as against the law in A. C. Jose v. Sivan Pillai case. Amendments were made to the Representation of the People Act, 1951 to legalise elections using Electronic Voting Machines. In 2003, all state elections and by-elections were held using EVMs.

The EVMs were also used during the national elections held for the Parliament of India in 2004 and 2009. According to the statistics available through the mainstream media, more than 400 million voters (about 60% of India's eligible voters) exercised their franchise through EVMs in 2009 elections. Tallying such a large number of votes took just a few hours.

...

EVMs have replaced paper ballots in the state and general (parliamentary) elections in India. There were earlier claims regarding EVMs' tamperability and security which have not been proved. After rulings of Delhi High Court, Supreme Court and demands from various political parties, Election Commission of India decided to introduce EVMs with voter-verified paper audit trail (VVPAT) system. The VVPAT system was introduced in 8 of 543 parliamentary constituencies as a pilot project in 2014 general election. Voter-verified paper audit trail (VVPAT) system which enables electronic voting machines to record each vote cast by generating the EVM slip, was introduced in all 543 Lok sabha constituencies in 2019 Indian general election.

There are three kinds of electronic voting machines M1, M2 and M3. The most modern M3 EVMs, which are in current use since its introduction in 2013, allow writing of machine code into the chips at PSU premises itself- Bharat Electronics Limited, Bangalore and Electronics Corporation of India Limited, Hyderabad. Election Commission of India introduced EVM Tracking Software (ETS) as a modern inventory management system where the identity and physical presence of all EVMS/ VVPATs is tracked on real time basis. M3 EVMs has digital verification system coded into each machine which is necessary to establish contact between its two component units. There are several layers of seals to ensure it is tamper-proof. Indian EVMs are stand-alone non-networked machines.

Omesh Saigal, an IIT alumnus and IAS officer, demonstrated that the 2009 elections in India when Congress Party of India came back to power might be rigged. This forced the election commission to review the current EVMs.

There's more on this here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_voting_by_country#India

I think it's only a question of when, not if EVMs will be used for voting. I'm still surprised to see such a low representation of countries in Europe who use EVMs.

Apparently, the EU had a flash of genius back in 2000 called "CyberVote", with the aim of demonstrating "fully verifiable on-line elections guaranteeing absolute privacy of the votes and using fixed and mobile Internet terminals". Hosted in Bulgaria, the 1990s retro style website of the project is back online again. Check it out here: https://www.eucybervote.org/index.html

(September 22, 2022, 10:07 PM)Zork Wrote:

(September 22, 2022, 12:24 AM)nbit Wrote:

(September 21, 2022, 03:33 PM)Zork Wrote:

(September 21, 2022, 12:52 PM)19689p Wrote:

(September 20, 2022, 06:01 PM)nbit Wrote: transition from paper to electronic needs to take place but paper maybe easier to manipulate but electronic opens to more ways of attack i guess depends how you look at it

Yeah, everything in life has its fair share of risk. You weigh the options and choose

True that. I was surprised to see that there are about 30 countries in the world already using some type of machine for electronic voting.

doesn't india? does seem inevitable but some populations may trust paper more even if its misplaced trust

Apparently it does. Wow! India uses EVMs. I had no idea. I just read about this on Wikipedia:

Electronic voting was first introduced in 1982 and was used on an experimental basis in the North Paravur assembly constituency in the State of Kerala. However the Supreme Court of India struck down this election as against the law in A. C. Jose v. Sivan Pillai case. Amendments were made to the Representation of the People Act, 1951 to legalise elections using Electronic Voting Machines. In 2003, all state elections and by-elections were held using EVMs.

The EVMs were also used during the national elections held for the Parliament of India in 2004 and 2009. According to the statistics available through the mainstream media, more than 400 million voters (about 60% of India's eligible voters) exercised their franchise through EVMs in 2009 elections. Tallying such a large number of votes took just a few hours.

...

EVMs have replaced paper ballots in the state and general (parliamentary) elections in India. There were earlier claims regarding EVMs' tamperability and security which have not been proved. After rulings of Delhi High Court, Supreme Court and demands from various political parties, Election Commission of India decided to introduce EVMs with voter-verified paper audit trail (VVPAT) system. The VVPAT system was introduced in 8 of 543 parliamentary constituencies as a pilot project in 2014 general election. Voter-verified paper audit trail (VVPAT) system which enables electronic voting machines to record each vote cast by generating the EVM slip, was introduced in all 543 Lok sabha constituencies in 2019 Indian general election.

There are three kinds of electronic voting machines M1, M2 and M3. The most modern M3 EVMs, which are in current use since its introduction in 2013, allow writing of machine code into the chips at PSU premises itself- Bharat Electronics Limited, Bangalore and Electronics Corporation of India Limited, Hyderabad. Election Commission of India introduced EVM Tracking Software (ETS) as a modern inventory management system where the identity and physical presence of all EVMS/ VVPATs is tracked on real time basis. M3 EVMs has digital verification system coded into each machine which is necessary to establish contact between its two component units. There are several layers of seals to ensure it is tamper-proof. Indian EVMs are stand-alone non-networked machines.

Omesh Saigal, an IIT alumnus and IAS officer, demonstrated that the 2009 elections in India when Congress Party of India came back to power might be rigged. This forced the election commission to review the current EVMs.

There's more on this here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_voting_by_country#India

I think it's only a question of when, not if EVMs will be used for voting. I'm still surprised to see such a low representation of countries in Europe who use EVMs.

Apparently, the EU had a flash of genius back in 2000 called "CyberVote", with the aim of demonstrating "fully verifiable on-line elections guaranteeing absolute privacy of the votes and using fixed and mobile Internet terminals". Hosted in Bulgaria, the 1990s retro style website of the project is back online again. Check it out here: https://www.eucybervote.org/index.html

It's the primary argument for adoption is that if India can do it there's no reason everyone else can't. Thx I'll check out that last link.

(September 19, 2022, 06:45 AM)phillybilli Wrote: Putin says that yes, these are very very safe ;) Electornic voting machines are very so good to enforce "democratic" goverment.

that's what i got hahahaha

Any machine can be hacked.

anything electronic is susceptible to getting hacked.

But traditional voting can be corrupted as well... hard to say.